How did the process for ‘Genesis II: Body Machine’ come about, and how did it vary compared to past projects like ‘Mutations’ and ‘Assembly Lines’?
This new body of work is in some ways an evolution of Assembly Lines and drawing operations in that so much of what I've been interested in over the past decade has been the evolution of the human hand. There are so many ways that we can reinvigorate traditions of drawing and processes of choreography through working with, and re-designing our tools.

For Genesis II, I developed a new spatial dataset, a meridian dataset that explores the 3D spatial line — it’s like sculpting in air. There’s a lot of technical challenges to this but I feel like it could inform the next generation of human and machine collaboration. What I've specifically been working with is ways to extend human gesture and body movements through virtual reality tools and motion capture. Essentially, I wear a motion capture suit that tracks the minutiae of my body movement. So it's sort of like recording the positional data of a dance, except in this case, I'm creating these sculptures in air. 

From a drawing standpoint, we’re now able to draw in a way we’ve never been able to before — recording data for machine interpretation and conversation. From an engineering standpoint, as well as an artistic adaptation standpoint, it’s a really interesting process.

Do any particular dances or influences inspire the movements for these datasets, any influences that go beyond the physical? 
I'm really informed by my own sense of visual rhythm, so I'm not really referring to any specific style of dance, but I do think of drawing as a kind of a meditation, and bring that into the work. I'm being aware of my own energy and flow, to enter into a creative fugue state and see what happens.

You have described your creative process as a state of flow in the past. Do you have any tricks for getting into that mindset?
I frequently get asked by younger practitioners, and practitioners in general, “how do you stay inspired, how do you stay creative?” I think I really rely on sound to get me there. I have a background as a musician and I'm heavily invested in the music scene. I work with a long term collaborator, Aquarian, who scores all the performances. 

There's something about being able to use sound as a way to inhabit different forms. People who've experienced sound healing sessions understand they can have a really powerful effect on the human brain, grounding yourself in sound helps to access different states that I otherwise wouldn't be able to. 

As an artist one can feel a lot of pressure to make XYZ, this or that painting. If I am just present in the sound and let my body move then this keeps me inspired, this is the flow state. 

What are the positives and negatives of having robot collaborators?
I like to say that robots don't often do as they're told. There's something really interesting about seeing one's own drawing and movements repeated or interpreted by a machine, it’s almost existential. Part of what I've learnt with these systems for almost 10 years is to relinquish control, and see the output as an extension of myself and an interpretation from something that is non-human. 

I’ve frequently thought about the systems as tools and collaborators, and one of the most valuable ways has been to think of them as a conduit of emotions — often fear and hope. We experience a lot of anxiety with these platforms and systems, but then there’s also a euphoric aspect when you see what they can do.

There’s a way to have it both ways, and to sit with that complexity, which would be both positive and negative. 

Is there one particular sort of medium, like brushes, pencils or pens, that the robots are better with than others, or more interesting with?
I really love the painting process because I think that's the one that has the most slippage. It’s also the one where time adds more of a variable factor, simply because paint needs to dry and, there's also something really visceral about paint on canvas. It gets quite chaotic sometimes, and I’m into that. Wet mediums provide new ways to explore tension. 

Has your relationship with artificial intelligence changed in the last few years?
I think the nature of the work has changed. Personally I like to get my hands dirty and figure out what the systems actually do, and see if I can work with them. That’s how I navigate my own uncertainty about it, and also it helps to try and find something meaningful and transformative within these new advances. 

As these tools are in their infancy, I would really encourage artists, or anyone for that matter to dive in and use it as an opportunity to expand technical knowledge. Play around and come to your own conclusions — that’s how we will make meaning from this. Then we can get into issues like artist privacy, right to opt out of datasets etc.

Do you have concerns about datasets? 
Yeah, I do think we need guardrails to protect artists. These tools should not be about replacing anything, but finding new ways of navigation that feel interesting and hopeful. And I think we need to really cement artists rights and protections. Otherwise, what are we doing? We don’t need an A.I. system to generate a movie when we have filmmakers, I don't think that's what anyone really wants. 

But there is something really interesting and compelling about people who are using prompts to participate in visual language, who perhaps haven’t learned how to work visually in a traditional sense, or are unable to due to a lack of materials etc. That exploration is really exciting because it opens up new avenues for creative expression. 

Our season is called Evolving Perspectives. How do you see the perspective dynamics between humans and machines changing?
I think it's important to understand that A.I. is a concept. It's not an entity, it's not the singularity, it's a concept. And we culturally create these different concepts for explaining complexity. Similarly, when I first started building machines, my idea of machine or robot was really fixed and learnt through media, science fiction etc. 

Once you start to get a little bit under the hood, designing and building your own systems, you realize it’s just a product of our imagination. And if it's a product of our imagination, then we can imagine better. I think that’s the Evolving Perspective that I'm really striving for. ■